Betfair Cross Matching

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Betfair Cross Matching

Postby bolpx001 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:18 pm

Hi All excuse my ignorance but recently I have been trying to get my head around Betfair's cross matching. I understand the basic principle but the how and why are escaping me. Am I over-thinking it,? Is it basically just arbitrage on steroids, powered by super bots with detailed information of the market at their disposal? Or am I missing something? - Paul
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Re: Betfair Cross Matching

Postby MarkRussell » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:44 pm

Hi,

There is an explanation on the AUS website which explains how and who is doing the matching:-

See https://www.betfair.com.au/hub/getting-started/cross-matching-on-australian-markets/

Regards,
Mark
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Re: Betfair Cross Matching

Postby bolpx001 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:12 pm

Thanks Mark, I know their spin and the theory. But what I want to know is it is just fancy arbitrage or is there more to it? I think it is fancy arbitrage with all the advantages of running it on their servers but I am not convinced I'm correct. I think they have a account that backs and lays to keep the book at 100% or so and pockets the profits from the over and under rounds. I don't have a problem with this but what if I am wrong; for example if I want a back bet of £10 matched at the best price available and put in a back of odds 1.01for £10 into excel; will their system chisel me out of some value that I might have gotten without cross matching being involved.
I suspect that Cross matching like a lot of things looks and sounds simple but the devil is in the detail. - best regards Paul
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Re: Betfair Cross Matching

Postby Daywalker » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:08 pm

Hi,

Cross matching puts your money across the market. When you back a runner, it's the same as laying every other runner, in both cases you're saying the outcome will be the same. All cross matching does is present each bet in both it's possibilities. You can see this on events with only two outcomes. If you open up the ladder and put a back bet in, slightly off the spread, you'll see a lay bet also appear on the other selection at the opposite odds.

Also on the likes of football games, with many markets on each game, the money can be cross matched over different markets.

Cross matching removes the possibility of arbitrage. Betfair screwing the markets with its own bots is something else (allegedly).
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Re: Betfair Cross Matching

Postby bolpx001 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:27 pm

Thanks Daywalker
For arguments sake and for the purpose of example only let us say there are two horses in a race and both are priced at 2/1 and I place a back bet of £10 on HorseA If he wins I Profit £20 and if he loses I lose my £10. If on the other hand the HorseB wins my losing stake of £10 needs to be covered. Using cross matching betfair covers my stake by putting £10 pounds on HorseB Which pays my £10 and leaves a balance of £10 for the Betfair coffers. This to my mind is fancy arbitrage with all the aces with Betfair, given that the system is run on their servers.
Like I said I don't mind too much, arbitrage is not my thing but I do worry if for example if I want a back bet of £10 matched at the best price available and put in a back bet with odds 1.01 for £10, will their system chisel me out of some value that I might have gotten without cross matching being involved. - best regards Paul
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Re: Betfair Cross Matching

Postby Captain Sensible » Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:08 pm

Cross matching would ensure you would never have a situation with both runners at 2/1 in a 2 runner race. X matching will always try to maintain as close as possible to that 100% book but remember the majority of matching takes place as bets hit the betfair server and never see the light of day on the exchange as any value for Betfair has been taken they just echo the leftovers onto the exchange.

X-matching is always going to be one of those swings and roundabouts situations depending on what methods you use to profit from the exchange.
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Re: Betfair Cross Matching

Postby bolpx001 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:07 pm

Thanks Captain, As I thought fancy arbitrage, but my question remains does it adversely effect a BACK bet placed at 1.01 in a effort to get the best available price? - best regards Paul
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Re: Betfair Cross Matching

Postby Daywalker » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:08 pm

As Captain says, you wouldn't get 2 runners in a two horse race at 2/1 (price=3.0). For the overround to be 100% then if runner A is trading at 3.0 (2/1) then runner B will be trading at 1.50 (1/2). The image below shows examples of the opposing odds to give a 100% book.

Image

When you put your back bet in at 1.01, you'll get your volume matched at the best price/prices available, whether that's from people trying to lay your selection, or people trying to back the other selection (because you are effectively laying the other selection). I dont think you would lose value to Betfair on this type of bet, you are accepting the possibility of poor value by putting on at 1.01 but are more likely to get all your volume matched. In the example you give, crossmatching actually means you getting the better price, by offering you the effective odds created by money backing the other selection.

On markets that are pre-off I can't see how more matching is happening before hitting the market - if there's £100 available at the best price to back, say 3.00, and you back £10 at at 1.01, you'll get matched at 3.00. Of course you could get beat to the money but you'd be unlucky to consistently lose out to what's available, unless you have a massive delay/poor connection.

On markets that are in running and have a delay, then you are screwed because there's no way of knowing when other money was placed. So you see £100 at 3.00 and bang in a £10 back at 1.01, that £100 could disappear, with you thinking someone got in before you, and when your money hits the exchange you get matched at, say, 2.90. Did someone take that £100? Did that £100 ever exist? Did the taker of that £100 have the same delay as you? There's no way of knowing. And you just got poorer value. Delays give advantage to those who don't have them - in this case Betfair. When markets are moving fast and wild and there's a delay, I cant see why you wouldn't be getting poor value. But this is not cross-matching doing you over, it's the system.
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Re: Betfair Cross Matching

Postby bolpx001 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:48 am

Thanks Daywalker and Captain.
First before you think I am a complete idiot, the scenario given of two horses at 2/1 in a 2 horse race was only to illustrate and highlight the question. I know that in a two horse race you would never get 2/1 on both horses any more than you would get 2/1 on a coin toss. I think Daywalker has answered my question and in effect the cross matching will work in my favour. Obviously In-Play backing is an entirely different matter.
My betting is entirely pre-off and based on patterns of betting and human nature so In-Play betting is only of academic interest. I think to make a profit on In-Play you would need to base it on Form and Pace and cross matching would be the least of your worries, although I reckon that Belfair make a packet Cross Matching in the in-running markets especially horse racing and similar. Maybe I should just say Belfair make a packet :roll:
Anyway in closing thank you Daywalker and Captain, I don't know where you get the time but I am glad you do and I appreciate it very much - best regards Paul
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Re: Betfair Cross Matching

Postby Captain Sensible » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:36 pm

In the old days there would be plenty of times you'd get 2/1 and 2/1 offers in a 2 runner race, x-matching just ensures we won't get those values anymore because betfair take it at source now :(

Problem with the x-matcher is that it just takes value and doesn't add any, all over/underrounds are now taken at source and don't appear on the exchange. In the old days any time a market went overround/broke hundreds of punters and bots would fight for them, not all would get filled so value/liquidity would be left up in the market hoping to get matched.
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Re: Betfair Cross Matching

Postby bolpx001 » Tue May 02, 2017 5:03 pm

True Captain, but spare a thought for Poor Old Betfair. If that was still the case they would no longer get a quart of blood to go with there pound of flesh. They would only be reduced to eking a living from the commission on the bets and PC and interest on cash flow. - best regards Paul
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