Betfair suspending accounts due to vendor data issues

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Betfair suspending accounts due to vendor data issues

Postby BruceLeet » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:18 pm

Hi guys

Posting this just on the off chance you guys (Gary and Mark) aren't aware of it, like I do with most issues I see, to ensure everything is working smoothly etc.

A lot of Betfair accounts got suspended in recent weeks because Betfair had some vendor data issues (probably for Gruss as well) where real betting activity wasn't being displayed but only data pulling activities, so their automatic system suspended many accounts based on "business grounds" because it suspected commercial usage, including some very active Premium Charge accounts, which is obviously a massive error and the biggest blunder I've seen so far. Some people that were suspended used Gruss software as well, among others, even though it doesn't have practice mode as a feature, so I suggest double-checking your data or talking to Betfair about that etc, to sort it out if it wasn't already.

If you get some customer complaints about closed/suspended accounts and such, then realistically only Betfair Developer Program support can assist them by re-activating the accounts and whitelisting them in case of future issues : https://support.developer.betfair.com/h ... quests/new

Based on gathered feedback from others, contacting Betfair live chat or Twitter support or security team etc is pointless as those departments aren't privy to any real account information and only have the power to withdraw your funds, so they can only give an standard reply that the accounts were closed on a business decision and they aren't even aware that they should point people in the direction of BDP.
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Re: Betfair suspending accounts due to vendor data issues

Postby BruceLeet » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:22 pm

@Gary/Mark

I have a simple enough question about pulling data, since Betfair doesn't like that very much and they regularly suspend accounts with no betting activity.

Does using streaming mean we're not pulling any data from Betfair, besides the initial login, because Gruss then subscribes to updates instead of pulling them with polling?

If so, can you please confirm that opening 10+ markets at the same time within Gruss would actually pull no data from Betfair and is no different than having just 1 market open?

Compared to something like opening 10+ markets with an internet browser, which would mean that data is actively getting pulled from Betfair?

Do I understand this correctly?

Cheers
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Re: Betfair suspending accounts due to vendor data issues

Postby BruceLeet » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:42 pm

Why are these issues being ignored?

Doesn't fill me with confidence using this software tbh.
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Re: Betfair suspending accounts due to vendor data issues

Postby MarkRussell » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:29 pm

Hi,

We are not aware of any accounts being suspended because of Betfair having data issues when using API software.
Betfair have not said anything to us about this.

As third party Betfair API software providers our software is compliant under the terms of our vendor licence and we are authorised by Betfair to provide the software under the terms set out by Betfair.

When you log into your Betfair account whether that is via the Betfair website using web browser software or via a third part API application you are required to abide by Betfair's Terms & Conditions.

Betfair will therefore monitor your activity when you are logged in as they want to ensure the service is not being abused or unfairly used.
You are expected to place bets and not just open markets for long periods.
Obviously, you are not expected to place bets on every market that you open but if you open lots of markets over a long period of time without placing any bets then Betfair will question what you are doing.
Their systems may flag your account for doing that as it could be seen that perhaps you are collecting data perhaps for commercial reasons which would be in breach of their Terms & Conditions.
If you find your account has been suspended for this reason and you believe it to be in error then you should contact the API team at Betfair who will be able to advise.

To clarify, about streaming as opposed to polling Betfair data, it doesn't matter which method you use, you are still receiving price data from Betfair.
If you open 10+ markets then you are requesting price data from all those markets and is not the same as having one market open.
Streaming is a more efficient method as it only sends changes but nevertheless you have the market open and are receiving the price data.

Please read Betfair's Terms & Conditions with regard to what you are and are not allowed to do.

If you are still unsure then please contact Betfair who will be able to advise.

Regards,
Mark
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Re: Betfair suspending accounts due to vendor data issues

Postby BruceLeet » Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:03 pm

Yeah, I realize Gruss users are never realistically going to get flagged for commercial usage since there is no practice mode feature, but some people do use multiple trading software etc.

MarkRussell wrote:To clarify, about streaming as opposed to polling Betfair data, it doesn't matter which method you use, you are still receiving price data from Betfair.
If you open 10+ markets then you are requesting price data from all those markets and is not the same as having one market open.
Streaming is a more efficient method as it only sends changes but nevertheless you have the market open and are receiving the price data.


To be fair, another vendor (with a lot of automation features) answered these questions slightly differently, that streaming only registers a login with Betfair and doesn't pull any more data than that, like you've said it just subscribes to updates, but it's a whole different story with polling apparently, especially when combined with faster refresh rates and this is something that Betfair may have a problem with, if there is not enough betting activity to warrant this data usage. However, switching to polling makes this a non-issue for them according to their BDP team, regardless what refresh rates are used and number of markets etc.

These are all obviously helpful things to know, but don't really have anything to do with the recent account suspension wave from Betfair which saw many active accounts get automatically suspended because the "vendor data" was erroneously showing no betting activity. So not really sure whose mistake that, either came from Betfair or some of their vendors, but figured you'd want to be aware of that.
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Re: Betfair suspending accounts due to vendor data issues

Postby BruceLeet » Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:05 pm

*switching from polling to streaming makes this a non-issue for them...

Is what I meant to say, can't edit the post apparently so gotta double post.
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Re: Betfair suspending accounts due to vendor data issues

Postby GaryRussell » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:57 am

BruceLeet wrote:*switching from polling to streaming makes this a non-issue for them...

Is what I meant to say, can't edit the post apparently so gotta double post.


I have to respectfully disagree with the other vendor. You do only make a small amount of outgoing requests to connect to stream and subscribe to markets, but are still receiving the same amount of information from Betfair. They have an issue with customers collecting data without betting, Streaming makes this more efficient for the customer. When a market is busy the server will be pushing up to 50 updates a second. This would be a lot of data on a Saturday afternoon if subscribed to many soccer and horse racing markets. I can guarantee if you do this and don't place any bets you will get their attention.
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Re: Betfair suspending accounts due to vendor data issues

Postby BruceLeet » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:31 pm

GaryRussell wrote:
BruceLeet wrote:I can guarantee if you do this and don't place any bets you will get their attention.


Well yeah, absolutely, "commercial usage" was always getting flagged and either severely limited or suspended entirely if overdone. However, this didn't explain why some of my friends that actively trade and pay Premium Charge got suspended for showing zero betting activity, until Betfair admitted to having issues with vendor data, so as a Gruss user myself I'm glad that we haven't experienced these issues.

Just saying that apparently polling with fast refresh rates is a lot worse than streaming, in terms of data being pulled, so I was looking for some confirmation on that in order to adjust my trading and botting activity if needed, because last thing I'd want to do is upset Betfair.

Cheers
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Re: Betfair suspending accounts due to vendor data issues

Postby MarkRussell » Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:36 am

Hi,

I can't comment about your friends accounts as I don't know anything about it.
If as you say Betfair made a mistake then that's for them to address and sort out.
What I can say is that there is no vendor issue in regard to our software in the sense that there is anything wrong with how our software requests data from the API server.
Betfair have not contacted us in respect of this.
If any of users accounts do get flagged as "Commercial Usage" then we would not be told by Betfair.

With regards to using Polling instead of streaming, it is a less efficient way of receiving price data for a market.
You would be sending requests for price data every x seconds, where x is the refresh rate that you have set, and the responses would include data where the price has not necessarily changed since the last time it was requested whereas streaming only sends changes.
Nevertheless I don't think it makes any difference which method you use to receive price data if you have markets open for long periods without placing bets.
I don't know what the thresholds are which would cause an account to be flagged as "Commercial Usage" but if you are placing bets then I don't see it happening.

If you are concerned that the way you trade could cause an issue for you then you should contact the API team for clarification.

Regards,
Mark
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Re: Betfair suspending accounts due to vendor data issues

Postby BruceLeet » Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:35 pm

MarkRussell wrote:What I can say is that there is no vendor issue in regard to our software in the sense that there is anything wrong with how our software requests data from the API server.


That's great to hear, cheers.
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