How Many Ticks ??

Discuss anything related to using the program (eg. triggered betting tactics)

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How Many Ticks ??

Postby StrugglingSid » Sun May 18, 2008 6:37 pm

Hi,

New to the forum and the Gruss Software. :)

This software is probably the last chance saloon for me, If I can't get it to work for me I will accept that I can't trade and will give it up for good!

Would anyone be willing to share how many ticks that they set the software for, on the gain side and on the stop loss side.

Thank you kindly for any help given. :)

Sid
StrugglingSid
 
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Postby MICHSTEP » Sun May 18, 2008 8:48 pm

Hi Sid,

If you're talking about horse racing, I can give you my experience on this.
I know practically nothing about horses but even so I decided to trade on the markets by picking one of the top 3 rated and making an initial bet of a back or lay using weight of money and market movement as indicators. I analysed the market movements from 15 mins before the off and traded within 5 mins to off. I had built into my program take profit and stop loss functions.

After five hundred + races, detailed analysis showed that all variations of stop loss and take profit functions turned out to be not meaningfully profitable. I then decided to vary the initial bet by substituting a lay for a back and a back for a lay. This also turned out to be even less profitable on the same set of races. How could this be possible? On close examination of the data and results, it seems that the spread between back and lay prices and Betfair commission was sufficient to evaporate the profits.

From what appears in the General Betting forum on Betfair, the most successful punter seems to be someone who calls himself Koo. He has a good knowledge of form. His method is to bet in running using fast pictures and Betfair Assistant to make the bets quickly.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to trade profitably but only that I couldn't find the answer after a lot of programming and number crunching.

Good Luck

Michael
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Postby PeteB » Mon May 19, 2008 10:26 am

The first thing is - you need an edge. You should be able to explain to someone in a couple of minutes what your edge is, and have some test results to show that it really does exist. If you can't do this, you don't have an edge, and will lose money, either slowly or quickly. You don't need much of an edge - the house edge on a roulette wheel is pretty small, but you can make a mint off it if you can take lots of bets and spin the wheel a lot.

The house edge in roulette about the same as the back-lay spread on betfair - would you rather be the house, and make the spread and make money slowly, or be the punters and pay the spread and lose money slowly?

(Of course, if your system has a good enough edge elsewhere (like you can predict outcomes better than the bookies or other betfair users), you could justify paying the spread to get your bets matched quickly - but you have to be aware that this reduces your edge)

I don't use the automated tick offset and stop loss, as I think you want more control than that. But there's some reasonably simple maths.
If you have the same number of ticks for tick offset and stop loss, then you need to be confident that your tick offset will be matched before your stop loss in more than half your trades, otherwise you have no edge. Similarly, if you use say 1 ticks offset, and 5 ticks stop loss, you must be confident that your stop loss will be hit fewer than 1 trade in 5, or you have no edge.

So it's much more about how good you are at picking the right moment to start a trade as required by your settings, rather than the settings themselves.

A few tips though. Firstly, patience is a virtue. Trading is often about waiting and waiting and waiting for the right opportunity. Sometimes this is easier if you pick a direction first - i.e. I am going to lay first - now I'm going to wait and wait and wait for the moment when the market looks most likely to go up. Secondly, don't chase - if you miss with your first lay and the market goes shooting up, congratulate yourself for spotting it, but accept that you missed and wait for the next one. If you chase, you will most likely finally get in at the top, just as it turns round and comes down again, taking out your stop loss if you have one.

(betfair commission should only evaporate profits if you are not greening up - if you are always fully green, then it is just like a small tax on profit)
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Postby StrugglingSid » Mon May 19, 2008 9:12 pm

MICHSTEP & PeteB

Many thanks for taking the time and trouble to reply to my question.

Having read and digested your posts I think my biggest problem is lack of patience as trading can of course be boring.

I will work on it and let you know how i get on :D
StrugglingSid
 
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Sports betting software from Gruss Software


The strength of Gruss Software is that it’s been designed by one of you, a frustrated sports punter, and then developed by listening to dozens of like-minded enthusiasts.

Gruss is owned and run by brothers Gary and Mark Russell. Gary discovered Betfair in 2004 and soon realised that using bespoke software to place bets was much more efficient than merely placing them through the website.

Gary built his own software and then enhanced its features after trialling it through other Betfair users and reacting to their improvement ideas, something that still happens today.

He started making a small monthly charge so he could work on it full-time and then recruited Mark to help develop the products and Gruss Software was born.

We think it’s the best of its kind and so do a lot of our customers. But you can never stand still in this game and we’ll continue to improve the software if any more great ideas emerge.