bLadDeR_1.4.xls release (link inside)

[Captain Sensible]

alehouse has sent me his excel sheet to put online so everyone can benefit from the ladder trading system. As it's an early release, more for feedback/adjustment etc, please be sensible when using and keep to minimum stakes until you're happy to use it.

download the file by right clicking the link and select save as.

http://stespr.coolinc.info/bladder.xls

Thanks again to alehouse for letting us all benefit from his ladder system and I'm sure he'd like to get feedback posted whether critical or positive.

[a1ehouse]

Great stuff - thanks Captain.

Well there you go! Good luck if you use it and post feedback, bugs and suggestions to this thread for now. Its worth keeping BA open under the bLadDeR to watch for misfires etc.

One "hidden feature" when you click on WOM, the bLadDeR refreshes and clears the bets tracked. Best used when changing markets from BA and not closing/reopening the bLadDeR.

Let me know how you get on with it!

A1ehouse

[thunderfoot]

Minor 'bug' .... when everything is 'connected' i.e. BA & Bladder and you make a selection from the drop-down box, if you've highlighted a selection but you're not quick on clicking on the selection, it 'jumps' back and highlights the selection that is already showing.

Is it possible for the User to set the values on the 9 stake buttons?
Is there a 'Clear All' facility?
Will the 'Hedge' button handle small amounts of money i.e. less than £2 (seeing as we're testing it with small stakes)


Probably mentioned somewhere in the other threads, but what do the figures represent in the WOM display?

Congrats on finishing your 'Project'

[funky]

I just went to try "bladder" out and had it set to $2 stakes.

All was fine, I layed the favourite and then backed it at a higher price

I then clicked the "net" button and bladded placed a $144 lay WHICH I DID NOT EXPECT TO HAPPEN AT ALL
and did not have time to cancel out with a back bet. Of course that particular horse won so I'm now down $255.

Needless to say I'm VERY unhappy with this and just thought I'd warn everyone else. I'm in I.T by profession so I know my way around PCs so it wasn't something I did wrong.

If you're going to test Bladder, it might pay to keep an eye on what its doing and have Betfair open in another window just in case.

[a1ehouse]

funky
Firstly, I am very sorry for the loss encountered in your first attempts. In my own testing and use, I have made and lost only small amounts and not even seen a large bet placed, so can not understand why this has happened.

Good advice though to keep an eye on what its doing and have Betfair open in another window just in case. I always minimize Excel as much as possible then launch the program so I can see BA underneath to see what is fired. Remember this is not like a direct link into BetFair, but goes thorough BA>Excel>Bladder and back, so there may be some delays depending on PC and Internet connection speed, although I have only noticed slow downs on massively trading markets which happens with BA anyway. If you want a more sophistiacated way of ladder trading you will have to fork out for the monthly betfair API fee and buy a program which plugins into direct via the API.

Now, back to a possible explanation:
If you placed the Back and Lay bets correctly, the Profit/Loss would show your current profit and the Hedge (Green) button would then become active.

If you wanted to spread the profit across all the selections you need to click on the Green button which depends on your Profit/Loss:
Profit places a Lay bet at the best available Lay Odds at the time
Loss places a Back bet at the best available Back Odds at the time

Now it appears you have selected the Net button which is used in trading for unmatching any matched stake to close out.
If you place a bet and part of the bet is unmatched a value appears in the Matched Stake Column. This also appears on the net button (Yellow) in the program, so the Net button only keeps track of this matched stake column. The only time you should use the Net button is if part of an initial bet is unmatched (e.g. £7 out of a £10 bet - this means the matched stake and Net button would read 7). Now, depending on what the original bet was (Back or Lay which you would see in the bets tracked), you need to click on the opposite (Lay or Back) to close out and you can choose what odds you can close out at - you need to be sure to place the opposite bet to the first. When you are trading if you select the Net button it only sets that amount as the default stake - it does not fire any bets - you can see this as the other stake buttons deselect. The next time you trigger a bet through it places a back or lay bet (depending on what you select) at that current Net Value you must select the Back or Lay Odds to place the Net stake at as the bladder does not fire any bets when you select the Net button, but merely sets the default stake.

thunderfoot
Minor 'bug' .... when everything is 'connected' i.e. BA & Bladder and you make a selection from the drop-down box, if you've highlighted a selection but you're not quick on clicking on the selection, it 'jumps' back and highlights the selection that is already showing.
Thunderfoot - as you have seen, if you're trying to make selections further down the drop down list as soon as BA/Excel refreshes, the 1st selection becomes highlighted. There are two options:
1) You can click in the selections box and use your keyboard arrow to scroll through the selections
2) I can change the drop down list to a list box and show say the first 5-8 selections by default


Is it possible for the User to set the values on the 9 stake buttons?
Not yet, but I will ceratinly look into developing that - probably use a Program Defaults Sheet to hold them all

Is there a 'Clear All' facility?
Not yet - could you explain further how you see this working.
There is a refresh bladder by clicking on the WOM indicator - but this clears the Bet list so I only use this when changing markets

Will the 'Hedge' button handle small amounts of money
The hedge button will fire the bet though as explained above, so I suppose it's whether BetFair accepts the bet, but if you are in profit by say 0.50p it will try to place a Lay bet of 0.15 if the current Lay odds were 3.25 (0.5/3.25 = 0.15)

what do the figures represent in the WOM display
If Back side > Lay side
1st Value: Percentage = (Sum of all the Back/(Sum of all the Back + Sum of the Lay))*100
2nd Value: Sum of all the Back/Sum of all the Lay
3rd Value: Sum of all the Back-Sum of all the Lay
Arrow Points Up

If Back side < Lay side
1st Value: Percentage = (Sum of all the Lay/(Sum of all the Back + Sum of the Lay))*100
2nd Value: Sum of all the Lay/Sum of all the Back
3rd Value: Sum of all the Lay-Sum of all the Back
Arrow Points Down

If Back side = Lay side
Always 50%
Always 0
Always 0
Arrows ><

[funky]

OK thanks for that alehouse.
I've now calmed down somewhat and am now philosophical about my unexpected loss. I just posted my last message so that other people could be aware of something like this happen and be ready for it because it really caught me unawares and I tried to place a back bet to "counter" your app placed, but fate must've been conspiring against me because Betting Assistant threw up a "error placing bet" message and next thing the race closed. (and there's no betting "in play" on Australian racing, its against the law over there apparently, so there was no way out really)

I'll make my $250 back again, all it means is the the last few weeks profit has gone down the drain which is of course disappointing. But like I said, I'll get it back.

[a1ehouse]

I know the feeling only too well funky The fact that there is no inplay for you even more frustrating, as you could have reduced that loss. As a result, the following health warnings are useful for others though:
ONLY USE FOR UK RACES/IN-PLAY MARKETS WHILE TESTING and
ONLY USE THE NET BUTTON IF YOU HAVE AN UNMATCHED BET YOU WANT TO CLOSE OUT

Captain - can you edit your 1st post please to forewarn.

I will try and get some instructions written up and put in to the program ASAP.

[Captain Sensible]

Version 1.5 now available from the same link.

Ability to change program defaults has been added -i.e. stakes etc.

[thunderfoot]

How much work would be involved in showing 3 selections instead of the one in a Ladder Format?

This would then bring it in to line a bit more with other applications.

[a1ehouse]

Not sure TF it'll mean triplicating everything. The other issue would be screen real estate as well. I will have a butchers hook.

[a1ehouse]

TF - I've had a look at triplicating everything, and although doable, the development time outways the benefit for me personally . Also the form was looking very busy and I developed bLadDeR to enable me to concentrate and trade on one selection at a time. I know Gary said in another thread that he was going to look at developing a ladder version, so perhaps he will consider your suggestion, although I think he's either on a massive jolly (not posted for a while) or he's been kidnapped by someone.

[Dedes]

A1ehouse,

Well, I’ve been out for a couple of days and I hadn’t had the chance to try to new version. But now I have and I also read the post here and so I would like to make some suggestions.

1) Because it’s still software under development there’s some risk involved. So, I think that an immediately up-grade of the software is needed to include a Max Liability option. This feature would unable any BACK bet above a certain amount and would also block any Lay bet where the liability would be above that same amount.
2) I think I'm not mistaken but the hedge button is suppose to place a Lay bet all the time, even if we have a loss. This loss would be spread be all the other selections. Am I right?
3) Would it be possible to edit at least 3 stake boxes? I would like to put my own amounts. At the moment we just have one editable box but could we have more? And then when trading by just a single click we could change the amount we wish to place.
4) Is it possible to have a horizontal ladder? It’s exactly the same thing but horizontally. This way I would be capable of watching more odds on my screen.


Give me some feedback please,
Dedes

[a1ehouse]

Dedes

1) Excellent idea - I will add a Max Liability on the preferences sheet. If the Profit/Liability is over that amount the bet won't be placed and a message box will pop up.
2) Hedge button is already fixed - it now places a back bet if in a loss position and will spread across all selections; lay bet if in profit. The hedge stake is calculated like this:
When in Profit = Current Profit/Lay Odds Placed at Lay Odds
or when in Loss = Current Loss/Back Odds Placed at Back Odds
3) All stake buttons can now be edited on ProgramDefaults/preferences sheet in version 1.5 and above
4) If it's horizontal it won't be a ladder, and you're better off using BA? If you can elaborate or post a picture it may help to see what you want it to do.

[Dedes]

A1ehouse,

OK! You're right if its horizontal its not a ladder, but the idea is the same. I think I'm so used with BA that sometimes the Ladder makes me a little confused. I've tried a software that had the same idea but in a horizantal point of view. I leave an image to show you




I again ask you about the Hedge button. Does it really need to make a Back bet when we have a loss to spread the loss among the other selections? I always thought that we are suppose to make a Lay bet dispite losing or wining. Are we are talking about the same thing?

[motorhead]

Does it really need to make a Back bet when we have a loss to spread the loss among the other selections? I always thought that we are suppose to make a Lay bet dispite losing or wining. Are we are talking about the same thing?

the formula of a1ehouse is correct , if we make a lay on a selection with a negative profit then we increase the our loss on that horse, in fact we wont to reduce the loss so we need a back