Trigger Modifier F5

[thunderfoot]

F5 = "would submit a back bet which if not matched after 5 seconds would be cancelled."

Can the numeric value be automatically adjusted so that it always relates to a certain Clock Time (60 seconds) before the scheduled off.

i.e. BACK bet can be placed anywhere between 60 - 120 seconds before the off, depending when certain criteria are meet.

A) Criteria meet at 115 seconds before the off so BACK-F55 wanted (115-60).
B) Criteria meet at 85 seconds before the off so BACK-F25 wanted (85-60).
C) Criteria meet at 65 seconds before the off so BACK-F5 wanted (65-60).

......... because I want to use BACK-F?-TL2.

[negapo]

I dont have an english excel with me but i tried to translate and i think it will work:

=IF(D2<TIME(0;1;55);CONCATENATE("BACK-F";IF(D2<TIME(0;1;5);5;IF(D2<TIME(0;1;25);"25";IF(D2<TIME(0;1;55);"55";"")));"-TL2");"")

I dont know if the Time function is called that way.
It is easier if you put your time intervals in cells and the fill or kill times in cells too so you can tweak your strategy.
Hope it helps

[thunderfoot]

Do trigger modifiers have to be placed in a certain order.

e.g. Would the following do the same thing:-

BACK-F30-TL2-SL5

BACK-TL2-SL5-F30

I want it to place a BACK bet, if not matched after 30 seconds then cancel complete action. If BACK is matched (fully or partially, say £73 or a £100 BACK stake) before 30 seconds then place a LAY stake 2 ticks below the Average Matched BACK Odds, at either £73 or £100 to Auto Level Profit ('Green-Up'), but if the odds go the wrong way (5 ticks above the Average Matched BACK Odds) then place a LAY stake at either £73 or £100 to Auto Level Profit ('Green-Up' negatively).

[osknows]

Hi there again!

Trigger modifiers do have to be in order of "LAY/BACK - Tick Offset - Fill or Kill - Stop Loss - Keep in Play"

From what you've requested the trigger I think you need is
BACK-TL2-F30-SL5-L

BACK : Back at required odds
-TL2 : Lay 2 ticks lower with level profit
-F30 : Fill or kill after 30 secs
-SL5-L : stop loss 5 ticks with level loss

This may be a bit better for you though...
BACK-TL2-F30-SL5-SL

BACK : Back at required odds
-TL2 : Lay 2 ticks lower with level profit
-F30 : Fill or kill after 30 secs
-SL5-SL : sliding stop loss 5 ticks with level loss

The sliding stop loss will maximise profit if you move farther than 2 ticks into profit

[thunderfoot]

This may be a bit better for you though...
BACK-TL2-F30-SL5-SL

BACK : Back at required odds
-TL2 : Lay 2 ticks lower with level profit
-F30 : Fill or kill after 30 secs
-SL5-SL : sliding stop loss 5 ticks with level loss

The sliding stop loss will maximise profit if you move farther than 2 ticks into profit

Hi Os,

Sliding stop-loss I like muchly!!!

Using the above:-

A) if the BACK side is fully matched and the LAY side isn't (i.e. BACK - £10 Matched; LAY - Nil Matched) will a LAY bet (£10) automatically be placed at whatever the available LAY odds are after 30 seconds?
B) if the BACK side is partially matched and the LAY side isn't (i.e. BACK - £5.45 of £10 Matched; LAY - Nil Matched) will a LAY bet automatically be placed at whatever the available LAY odds are after 30 seconds, using the stake (£5.45) matched on the BACK side?
C) if the BACK side is fully matched and the LAY side is partially matched (i.e. BACK - £10; LAY - £2.80) will a LAY bet automatically be placed at whatever the available LAY odds are after 30 seconds, using the difference in stake matched on the BACK side and LAY side (£7.20)?
D) if the BACK side is partially matched and the LAY side is partially matched (i.e. BACK - £5 of £10; LAY - £2.80) will a LAY bet automatically be placed at whatever the available LAY odds are after 30 seconds, using the difference in stake matched on the BACK side and LAY side (£2.20)?


Think that makes sense. What I don't want, is to be left with an open BACK bet.

[osknows]

Please correct me if I have got any of this wrong...

Assume you're placing BACK bets first; the trigger place a BACK bet based on your trigger settings once only, if it is not matched or partially matched the remainder gets killed after defined no. of seconds. This happens once only. If your BACK bet is unmatched, nothing further happens.

The fill or kill only acts on your entry to the market and not any subsequent offsets. So a fill or kill of 30s means you place a BACK bet first if it is not filled kill the remainder after 30s, once 30 seconds is up the fill or kill component has no further effect on your trade.

Your offset is now based on the amount matched entering the market. Once your offset odds have been reached (either profit or stoploss) the LAY is fired ONCE only at the offset odds - NOT by any amount available (except where odds are in your favour - eg you lay at 3.0 but catch 2.5). There are no re-triggers if your LAY is unmatched or partially matched as far as I know. You will need to write some code to monitor these situations and act accordingly.

So answering your questions...

A - No
B - No
C - No
D - No

You can be left with an open BACK bet for many different reasons including how quickly the market moves, what your offset amounts are etc

Os

[thunderfoot]

Right, I'm using BACK-TL2-F52-SL4-SL as a trigger to enter BACK/LAY stakes.

The down-side is that if after the 52 seconds has expired the BACK/LAY bets have not been fully MATCHED I can end up with an open or partly open market. So what I want to do is place a LAY bet accepting whatever odds are available, creating an Auto Level Profit/Loss.

Would LAYR-TL0 work?

LAYR - Replaces an unmatched LAY bet (Do I need the R?)
TL0 - Accepts LAY odds available, and creates Auto Level Profit/Loss.

Auto Level Profit modifier (L) only seems to be available in conjunction with the Tick Offset modifier (TLn).

...... or is LAY-L workable??????????????

[osknows]

My understanding is..... (and please someone correct me if this is wrong)

If you clear the bet reference columns and place LAYR all it will do is place a new lay bet with the current odds/stake in adjacent columns

If you do not clear the bet reference column and there is a valid unmatched bet reference number already there (valid as in reference is for a LAY bet) then the LAYR 'replaces' the unmatched LAY bet with a new one at current odds/stakes

It looks like you have a matched BACK bet but after a set time both the tick offset and tick stop loss has not fired. The bet reference will be for the BACK element so LAYR will not work unless you use the unmatched LAY bet reference found in the additional columns with the horse data. You will need to write some VBA logic to grab this reference to use with LAYR in the correct columns. These additional column also show Y/N whether the offset part of your bet has been matched

[osknows]

It would be really useful to have a 2nd fill or kill logic on the unmatched part of any trigger. Unfortunately, currently it has to be done manually for most situations

Also, in BA you have the close all positions button. Again this would be really useful as an excel trigger in some occasions.

[thunderfoot]

Using BACK-TL2-F'x'-SL4-SL where 'x' equals the number of seconds to go before the scheduled off.

Question is, once the BACK portion has been matched the Cols.T,U,V,W & X get populated with the BACK details, BUT once the LAY part gets triggered and matched the only change is to Col. X (Profit/Loss).

Shouldn't Cols. T,U,V & W also get updated with the LAY bet details?

[thunderfoot]

BACK-TL2-F'x'-SL4-SL

Does the timescale element of this trigger refer to just the BACK portion or the LAY portion as well. i.e. if 'x' = 20 seconds is the whole action cancelled after 20 seconds, or just the BACK action.

Been testing this trigger and some disturbing actions having been happening.

1) Seen some LAY bets being actioned AFTER the 20 seconds have expired.
2) BA is showing the LAY part of the bet as unactioned, but Betfair is showing the LAY bet as fully matched.

Only found this because I've been recording the data every 1 second during the last 2 - 3 minutes before the scheduled off.

[GaryRussell]

It applies to the back bet only.

1) A lay bet is placed whenever any portion of the back bet is matched.
2) If you can see the bet on Betfair, but not on BA then this could be due to poor API performance, the bet refreshes are getting delayed. If you see a bet on Betfair, but not in the bets manager in BA then check the last updated time just above the bets manager to see if it's current. This could be why you see lay bets placed after the 20 seconds because BA didn't know the back bet was matched due to the bets not being refreshed. I will be adding a facility to view a history of response times which you will be able to refer back to when you see situations like this.

[thunderfoot]

It applies to the back bet only.

So does this mean the LAY bet will continue to be attempted to be Matched until the market goes In-Play?

2) If you can see the bet on Betfair, but not on BA then this could be due to poor API performance, the bet refreshes are getting delayed.

Bugger, Pooh & Crap!! I was about 90% completed on setting-up an automatic trading system using EXCEL and its formulas (no VBA ... must be a first!! ), until I noticed some LAY bets had actually been placed in Betfair, but BA was still showing the LAY bets as not being placed. I was going to use the data in Cols T - X to place Stop-Loss LAY bets.

I could have ended up placing a Stop-Loss LAY bet when there was no need, as a LAY bet had been completed (using the BACK-TL2-F'x'-SL4-SL trigger) but just not shown on BA

[thunderfoot]

Apoligies Gary ....... just realised I've made a mistake, the delay is not between Betfair and BA, it's between BA and EXCEL.

Could there be any reason for LAY bets being shown on BA but not in EXCEL. It isn't a case of EXCEL 'freezing' as all the rest of the data (odds, money placed etc. are different)

[GaryRussell]

Not shown where? In the offset bet ref column or the MyBets sheet?