Step-through process.

[thunderfoot]

Right, I need some help regarding what appears in what columns and when!!

Firstly lets assume that BA downloads to cell A1 in EXCEL.

Scenario - I place a bet, say BACK of £100 at Odds of 2.00 against selection 1.
Cell N5 will show BACK.
Cell O5 will show 2.00.
Cell P5 will show £100.
This will trigger the bet to Betfair. Yes?
Then ........
N5, O5 & P5 remain as above.
Q5 will show PENDING
(Assume it is at this stage that you would change Cell N5 to something else, say WAIT)
Q5 will then show a 10 digit numeric Bet Ref No when the bet is MATCHED.
R5 will show the Time of the Bet.
S5 will show the Average Odds at which you were MATCHED.
T5 will show £100 .... if fully MATCHED.
U5 will show 'possible' profit i.e. £200.


IF the bet is partially MATCHED what will the above cells show? Where & how is the UNMATCHED portion shown?
If the bet is fully MATCHED, but in 2 stages, what does Q5 show? Assume the 2nd Bet Ref No!!?
If the Bet is not MATCHED will CANCEL in cell N5 do the same as clicking on the 'x' in Betfair? If not, how IS the bet cancelled? Does CLEAR do the job?
If the Bet is fully MATCHED then I would use CLEAR in cell N5, which would clear all entries N5:U5, ready for next bet. Yes??


I've made-up an EXCEL based 'Ladder Trading' system (same format as Adam Todds software), but just need to get my head around what happens in these cells & in what sequence, so that I can get them populated using either formulae or VB.
Once I know what appears in what cell & in what order, covering the different scenarios (i.e. Fully Matched, Partially Matched, UnMatched) I think I'll make myself a 'flow-chart' first, then program/write formula based on that, otherwise I can see myself getting in a mess

I don't have access to a computer over the next week or so , that allows me to use BA to run a test myself to see what appears where & when, but want to push on with getting the triggered betting sorted-out.

Next step will be to set-up a Stop-Loss of say, 3 ticks, so that I can automatically trade-out of a position i.e. BACK Bet £100 at 2.40, automatically set LAY Stop-Loss to 2.44, then if Bet goes in right direction (Shortens) and touch's LAY of 2.38 then I take the 1 tick profit, else the small loss. Thinking of making this a sliding feature .... if it touch's 2.38 ammend LAY bet to 2.36, if it touch's 2.36 ammend LAY bet to 2.34 etc. etc. then as soon as it goes back the other way take the trade, maximising the profit. Anyone been able to do this yet or has any views/suggestions on this??

[Mitch]

Hi, I've done something similar and you'll be horrified to hear there are lots of problems along the way or maybe that's just me. The worst thing that happened (pretty much the first time I left it alone) was that I hadn't properly told it when to recognise that it had placed a bet, so it emptied my account onto 1 horse in about 16 small bets. Thankfully I'd only gone to make a drink so managed to spot it before the off and trade back for a small loss.

I tried to program mine to spot when a market was likely to move and place bets accordingly.
Are you doing the same or do you manually choose when to enter a market (I'm not familiar with the software you mention)?

It works as I want it to now, but the 'rules' it uses when deciding whether or not to bet need some refining. I did code a stop-loss into it but found that over half the time the stop was reached the market went back the other way afterwards, so changed it so that I click somewhere to bail out of a trade.

As far as I've been able to tell if a bet is matched in parts then the bet reference remains the same for all parts of the larger bet matched. The only sense that the unmatched portion is shown is that the matched stake is less than the amount requested.

CANCEL in N5 is the same as clicking the x in bf as long as you have the bet ref in Q5 still, but since there is the refresh delay between BA and BF you have to not the amount matched figure to see if any was taken before the cancel request was made.

I can't comment on CLEAR because I don't use it. Because I like macros, I find it easier to clear the cells myself once matched stake = requested stake.

Regarding the sliding LAY idea you have... I don't think you can amend bet details from Excel so you would have to cancel the original then place a new bet at the revised odds. Is there not a danger that the price would have gone back the other way before the bet was matched? Also, because the LAY odds will be showing when you want to amend your bet, and you have placed it a while ago your money will be near the front of the queue for matching and you may not be able to change it before it's taken.
In the one I have done the 1 tick offset LAY would be matched, then if my 'rules' decide that the price will shorten further another BACK is placed. I know at first glance this might seem self-defeating but as long as you're not using all of your account at one time then it makes no difference to the £ at the end.
For example, if you BACK at 3.5 for £10, then LAY at 3.45, BACK at 3.45, LAY at 3.4, BACK at 3.4 etc all the way down to a lay at 3.2 it makes the same £ profit as 1 BACK at 3.5 and a LAY at 3.2.

[thunderfoot]

Hi Mitch,

The worst thing that happened (pretty much the first time I left it alone) was that I hadn't properly told it when to recognise that it had placed a bet, so it emptied my account onto 1 horse in about 16 small bets.

Is this a case of BACK being shown in Col. N; the bet being met and because BACK in Col. N wasn't changed, it placed another bet .... again and again and again!!!

I tried to program mine to spot when a market was likely to move and place bets accordingly.
Are you doing the same or do you manually choose when to enter a market (I'm not familiar with the software you mention)?

I'm using it manually ..... until I can identify a reliable formulae to spot when a market is likely to change!! Nothing beats the human brain
The software in question (but don't use it, it's full of bugs ) is found at http://www.racingtraders.com/. The 'ladder' format can be seen in operation. It's around this format that I've based my EXCEL version. One click and the bets in!!
Do you know if, using BA, I place a BACK bet and straight away place a LAY bet, will both bets get to BF, or do you have to wait for BA to process the BACK bet (i.e. get to showing the Bet Ref No.) before it will process the LAY bet? If there's a delay in processing bets (i.e. does one bet before it can do another bet) then I think the delay in BA could be costing us money!!!

As far as I've been able to tell if a bet is matched in parts then the bet reference remains the same for all parts of the larger bet matched. The only sense that the unmatched portion is shown is that the matched stake is less than the amount requested.

Cheers!!

CANCEL in N5 is the same as clicking the x in bf as long as you have the bet ref in Q5 still, but since there is the refresh delay between BA and BF you have to not the amount matched figure to see if any was taken before the cancel request was made.

Bugger!!! What sort of delay are you having? When I tried it a couple of weeks ago it looked pretty instant.

I can't comment on CLEAR because I don't use it. Because I like macros, I find it easier to clear the cells myself once matched stake = requested stake.

Yeah! That's one way to do.

Regarding the sliding LAY idea you have... I don't think you can amend bet details from Excel so you would have to cancel the original then place a new bet at the revised odds. Is there not a danger that the price would have gone back the other way before the bet was matched? Also, because the LAY odds will be showing when you want to amend your bet, and you have placed it a while ago your money will be near the front of the queue for matching and you may not be able to change it before it's taken. In the one I have done the 1 tick offset LAY would be matched, then if my 'rules' decide that the price will shorten further another BACK is placed. I know at first glance this might seem self-defeating but as long as you're not using all of your account at one time then it makes no difference to the £ at the end.
For example, if you BACK at 3.5 for £10, then LAY at 3.45, BACK at 3.45, LAY at 3.4, BACK at 3.4 etc all the way down to a lay at 3.2 it makes the same £ profit as 1 BACK at 3.5 and a LAY at 3.2.

Agree .... think I'm trying to be too clever and complicate things.

[Ian]

Q5 will then show a 10 digit numeric Bet Ref No when the bet is MATCHED

The Bet Ref appears at the next refresh following the trigger regardless of whether the bet is matched or not.

One of the best ways I have found to see how BA works is to slow the refresh down to, say. 10 secs. This gives you time to see the bet refs, matched amounts etc. Mitch is right about the problem about what has actually been matched following a cancel - you will see this if you slow down the refresh.

[Mitch]

I've not got the patience to mess around with the quotes, so probably roughly in the right order....

I don't remember what the problem was, just that I made sure it was the next thing I fixed.

You may be right about human judgement being best, but I'm not the most successful gambler ever so I thought I might be better off not judging when to bet, plus Excel can follow the rules much quicker than I could make a judgement, and on all selections not just 2 or 3.
I'm not sure if you have to wait for a bet ref to be returned or not before you can place another one. I know that BA 'pastes' data to Excel more than once for each refresh (once for the prices, then once for each selection for your bet data). I'm not sure at what stage of the process BA reads the triggers and submits actions, maybe Gary could confirm that?

I don't mean a delay in processing bets (other than the standard in-play delay which doesn't affect CANCEL triggers), but rather the delay between refreshes. In Betfair, your cancel is submitted as soon as you click the x. In BA, even if you have the refresh rate set at 0.5 second the CANCEL is only submitted when BA next refreshes which could be anything up to 0.5 of a second away. What I meant is the bet could be taken in that time.

I took a look at the site you mentioned. Is yours exactly the same, or were there things you didn't want or had trouble trying to do? Or maybe you put something extra in?

[thunderfoot]

Is yours exactly the same, or were there things you didn't want or had trouble trying to do? Or maybe you put something extra in?

Basically it's in the same format i.e. as a ladder, and one click on either the BACK or LAY side places the stake (which you can manually set) at the Odds you've clicked on. Got one or two information features to add, one being to show "Where's the Money" on the selections.

I'm planning to do away with the 'Hedge' button and I'm planning for the system to automatically calculate the stake for a LAY bet (if a BACK bet has been placed first) to generate the Win/Win positions as you go along.