PC could be as much as 40%??

[andy]

they already tried to be the bookie with high roller clients and bottled out of it even though they said they made a profit it was to volatile for them

i am one of the new 40% they really are turning into a despicable company 3 years ago they said they needed to make 20% from every account to make it worth their while

now they tell me the 20% is only a break even fig and they need 40%
how can they possibly justify 40% never mind 60% (just because you have had the cheek to win 250k over 10 years )that they will be taking from some

[U.F.O]

They have found better ways to be a bookmaker now though
taking zero risks with cross matching.

and with their new sportsbook, i expect that they will be doing the same type of thing.

[alrodopial]

taking zero risks with cross matching.

Can you explain this?

[Captain Sensible]

taking zero risks with cross matching.

Can you explain this?

cross matching just takes existing customers bets to create opposing bets on the other options so they effectively have no risk cos the moneys already on the exchange.

i.e. two runner market if someone is backing at 2's they'll treat it as a lay of the other player at 2's cos it's the same outcome.

They make money when they create an opposing bet either from a single bet or by grouping bets together but the odds created don't fit the current odds ladder so they take the rounding differences.

Here's betfair's explanation of x matching

http://bdp.betfair.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=62

[jokerjoe]

Cross matching would be fine if they didn't round down the odds, it's totally against the principal of best execution which they claim to adhere to and certainly wouldn't be allowed in financial markets.

[doris_day]

For me, the attitude that Betfair are displaying is endemic in so many companies these days, particularly publicly quoted ones. It seems that providing a good service, making a reasonable profit with a happy staff who work with loyal customers just isn't enough. The bottom line is all that seems to matter. And a bottom line that grows at a growing rate each year.

That greed mentaility is exactly what created our current economic climate and in the end is what will destroy many organisations. Sure it will have its successes too but they don't tend to add to the quality of life for the majority.

I've now removed 90% of my money from Betfair (and all from LMAX and Tradefair) and have scaled right back on what I do with them. Everything that I can do elsewhere at no less profit (and in most cases at greater profit), I will. Of course it won't make any significant difference to Betfair but a small part of me will sleep a little better in the knowledge that I'm supporting a company with an appallingly greedy mentality just a little less.

[Happy Harry]

Does the Betdaq version have COM functionality?

These new charges are ridiculous. Trouble is despite the talk no-one will change exchanges if the liquidity is still on betfair. There needs to be a concerted push, an organised campaign to switch.

I am a bit surprised that everyone is getting so worried. As I read the announcement and perhaps I am not understanding it, all that is required to avoid the charges is to keep the POT below about 5 %. I know that is not quite how the charges are explained but that is effectively how it will work so if your POT is too high just add some turnover items that will reduce the POT, increase the amount of fee being generated and no longer a problem.

HH

[Nutter Punter]

Happy Harry - Have you any suggestions for how to churn like this? I need a churning bot or a poker bot for Betfair and need a point in the right direction.

[doris_day]

Ah well, so much for me being clever and transferring one of my algos to Betdaq. Its an algo that if it doesn't get matched pre in-play, leaves the bet in-play. It would have got matched on Betfair but didn't get matched on Betdaq (just missed). It went on to win and cost me winnings I would have got on Betfair of around £960....That'll teach me.........

[U.F.O]

I Know it can be a realy nighmare when it all goes wrong,

i was doing very well yesterday pre race trading untill i got on the wrong side of a big move,

on betfair i would have scratched it ot maybe or got out with a few ticks loss,
but on betdaq DISASTER 10 ticks plus

[Happy Harry]

Happy Harry - Have you any suggestions for how to churn like this? I need a churning bot or a poker bot for Betfair and need a point in the right direction.

If I need to do this I have a variety of selections on the Lay side that are so close to breakeven after commission as makes no difference. In fact I developed them from my main "betting" databases with the expectation that they would be level stakes profitable but they turned out to just fail. So no this is not a churning bot type approach but rather laying selections. I would think that whatever markets you are playing in if you are on a low commission which anyone with this problem probably is, then there will be opportunities in the bets that you currently reject that probably do exactly the same thing.

HH

[Ian]

HH, how does what you do save you anything ? The premium charge is a % of your profit less any commission already paid. Doesn't what you are doing just increase the commission paid but, as your profit remains the same, you end up paying Betfair exactly the same overall ?

[milfor]

... if you are on a low commission which anyone with this problem probably is ...

That's not true I'm afraid. Too few losing markets bring one into PC
territory AND keep the commission high. We above 3% commission can't
'churn' with break even bets because we would lose more in commission
than we earn by reducing the PC. Any suggestions for those?

[andy]

i am on 4.1% commission and in the 40% bracket

[doris_day]

Ah well, so much for me being clever and transferring one of my algos to Betdaq. Its an algo that if it doesn't get matched pre in-play, leaves the bet in-play. It would have got matched on Betfair but didn't get matched on Betdaq (just missed). It went on to win and cost me winnings I would have got on Betfair of around £960....That'll teach me.........

A similar sort of thing happened today (Saturday). I bet before the off but wanted to trade out during the race but it was completely impossible for lack of liquidity. For god's sake, this is a Saturday and absolutely nothing was traded in play. What do they say about once bitten, twice shy ? I'm outta there. Low commission and lack of PC is one thing but if you don't have any liquidity then the downsides far outweigh the upsides.